Curse

Mesmer in Need · Aug 11, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I cant believe how many people equate warriors with damage dealing. Why do so many people think this? Eles are supposed to do damage dealing. Not warriors. Warriors are supposed to tank. TANK. Why do you think anet gave us stronger armour, shields, and defencive skills? To nuke? I recently posted on a thread about how people hate mending, and people think a warrio using mending is a waste of energy. In my view, it is perfect for a tanker. You have constant healing, and if you are concentrated on tanking you dont have to worry about your energy. You might say "if were not supposed to do damage, why does anet give us three different weapon options?" Ill tell you why. Think about it. All weapon skills arent just about damage dealing. we have knock downs, bleeding, crippling. These skills are able to give an opening to your other party members to do damage. And about mending. Wariors should use mending while fighting. yes i said it. I always have mending on my skill bar. ALWAYS. I know that it takes up one pip of regen. so? Good warriors use adrenaline. I know we only have a few signets, but they are really great. Healing signet- over 100 health from 1 heal. Doylak signet- no knockdowns, and added armour. So people, stop letting your eles slack off, and let them attack. Let your warriors tank.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 11, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

In pve, tanking is basically all a lie. No group I have ever been in lets the warrior go in and get aggro before getting into aggro range. All the warrior does basically is stand in melee range and attack.

That is why warriors are mainly using 2-3 defensive skills and all attack skills.

Livingston · Aug 11, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Oooh I think this going to be an interesting thread.

Puts on shades and gets some popcorn.

Livingston

Pick Me · Aug 11, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Hmmm....

Perhaps you have not experienced the "kamakazi"/"I'm invincible" warrior. I've seen them, they recklessly run into the fray and aggro everything insight and because they have mending on, that and healing breeze will take care of any damage they suffer. They run away from their party monks, then complain when they die. As if they were surprised that they could die, or that the monk didn't heal them.

You believe that Warriors tank, monks heal, and elementalists do the damage. So Rangers, Necromancers, Ritualists, Assassins, and Mesmers only help out.

Granted, that may not be exactly what you are saying, but that's what I get out of it. Anyway, Warriors do make great tanks, don't get me wrong. Nuking, usually indicates AoE, which means monsters will scatter from the warrior like he/she has the plague. Some monsters will then attack the nuker. How can you tank something that isn't interested in you anymore? A Tank is the front line, and must stay there with others in the back (away from any monster in their aggro circle).

Weapons are there to do damage, skills are their to augment that damage. Strength, the primary attribute of a Warrior allows even more damage to be distributed. Warriors do great damage on a 1v1 scale, Elementalists do great damage on a 1vX scale.

Not all good skills require adrenaline, some do require energy.

Racthoh · Aug 11, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself.

There I'm tanking. (Pumps sword to 16) And now I'm dealing damage too.

Also, Live Vicariously will return more health a second than Mending were you to spec Mending to +3.

SnipiousMax · Aug 11, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself.

There I'm tanking. (Pumps sword to 16) And now I'm dealing damage too.

Something so simple, yet so many don't understand...

Just because you are meant to soak up damage in NO WAY excuses you from not dealing damage. Warriors have the best, most consistant and easily maintained DPS in the game. PvP and PvE have more in common than people realize... It's just that PvE is more forgiving.

Warriors should be dealing damage, or they are just dead weight. The faster you kill things in PvE the better. That's less damage you have to heal later, that's less damage you have to prevent, that's less energy you have to expend to keep up, etc. Ele's alone are not going to kill things fast enough. Tanking requires, at most, two or three skills to do it just as effecitively as an entire skillbar devoted to the same damn purpose. Warriors are built to kill things, and they excel at killing things. EVERYTHING else is meant to 1.) Aid warriors in killing things 2.) prevent things from killing you 3.) aid others in preventing things from killing you.

Besides, how many war's do you think we would win, if our tanks didn't have big freaking guns on them?

Mr.H.Mishima · Aug 11, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Tank + damage dealing:

Here is the core to damage dealing as a tank:

Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Gladiator's Defense

Here is what you use to kill squishies:

Sever Artery
Standing Slash

Protection from everything:

Shield Stance
Dolyak Signet

Help the Monk out once in a while:

Healing Signet

Strength at 14
Sword at 12
Tactics at 13

Sentinel's Armor
Superior Vigor
Superior Absorb
Superior Tactics
Superior Strength
Minor Sword

+5 energy Zealous Sword
-2/-3 Shield

I personally don't understand why you would even waste your points on a secondary profession.

Mending is crap. In the higher level area's it gets stripped, or worse. Healing Sig at 16 Tactics is +159. I too used to believe Mending was the be all/end all. Try some build without it and see.

If it wasn't for the Str req for Sentinels, I'd leave Strength empty and pump sword to 15 and Tactics to 16.

I run this build to farm just about anywhere. It works suprisingly well in a team as well. For example, in the Deep, my 3 man team cleared our room and most of the center room without assistance. I held aggro and destroyed the carps. Kanaxi's Aspects suck the pain from this build. Earth Ele and Monk supported me.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 11, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I think this post is quite funny.

Warriors aren't supposed to do damage? It's all the nukers job? And all the monk does is heal? Yes, a warrior is supposed to "tank" but apparently you believe that they should have an 8 skill bar devoted to soley tanking. That's ludacris.

As ractoth said (basically the king of w/x ) d sig + watch yourself would easily be considered tanking. It doesn't seem like you consider that tanking though.

There are so many things to say about this, but I just don't have the time.

Cyprus · Aug 12, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

If you firmly belive that warriors have no purpose as damage dealers and only as tanks, come up with a build that utilizes eight tanking skills instead of only a suggested two or three. If you can't and only two or three seem to ever be used, why wouldn't you put some attack skills that can actually be useful instead?

It seems the choice is obvious.

Choose between a warrior who can survive easily and a warrior who can survive slightly less or as easily and has some decent dps to boot.

i Valinor · Aug 12, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

a good defense in a great offense.

as i warrior i have never been bitched at for not dealing enough damage, so i dont really know what to tell you but all my war builds have 3-4 defensive skill and 3-4 offensive give or take a rez sig. i mean its all about balance. if you can make it so you can take all the damage and other party members arnt getting attacked great, but if your being ignored (as i am whenever i take glads defense and repostie) the best thing you can do is kill whats attacking your soft targets as fast as possible.

Arkantos · Aug 12, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Str 10
Sword/Axe/Hammer 16
Tactics 11

Dolyak Signet
Watch Yourself
Healing Signet
Attack
Attack
Attack
Attack
Rez

Rera · Aug 12, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I like this better:

interrupt
interrupt
ias
attack
attack
attack
attack
res

or

ias
attack
attack
attack
attack
attack
attack
res

There are only a handful of areas in the game where you will actually need defensive skills to tank effectively (for example, any area with large groups of Shiro'ken). Feel free to go full offense otherwise.

I'm a big fan of Dolyak Sig, but the speed penalty becomes a serious liability in most PUGs. If you can't hold aggro, because either you or your group is incompetent, you need to be able to rush monsters down, and you can't do that crawling. I think the most practical defensive skills are probably "Watch Yourself!" and "Shields Up!". The latter has the added advantage of making it more difficult for enemy rangers to interrupt your casters, which is particularly important in areas that feature Broadhead Arrow and Concussion Shot.

Mesmer in Need · Aug 12, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

omg what have i done...

ubermancer · Aug 12, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself.

There I'm tanking. (Pumps sword to 16) And now I'm dealing damage too.

Also, Live Vicariously will return more health a second than Mending were you to spec Mending to +3.

Bah. Everyone knows a true Warrior uses a Hammer!

Bob Whills · Aug 12, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Hammers are fun, and knockdowns are good damage mitigation.
However lately ive been running the succor + adren build in pugs. Works well because many pug monks lack adequate energy management. Also you can get some decent dps.

Normal build
10~ str
16 Axe/Sword
9~ tac

rez, succor, dolyak sig, bonetties (or watch yourself, rush, etc)

then for swords: dragon slash, gash, sever, and galraths

or for axes: evicerate, executioners, penetrating, penetrating

Dawns Tide · Aug 12, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

In pve, tanking is basically all a lie. No group I have ever been in lets the warrior go in and get aggro before getting into aggro range. All the warrior does basically is stand in melee range and attack.

Amen.

Ismoke · Aug 12, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

a mesmer telling warriors how to be a warrior! Thats ITs eureka !

JR · Aug 12, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Warriors are the single greatest source of damage in the game, looking at damage done to a single target.

Warriors deal even more, with an attack speed increase like Frenzy or Tiger's Fury.

Warriors deal even more again with actual attack skills.

The simple fact is that the only thing that makes Elementalists attractive in PvE is monsters bunching up. In areas where you have fewer monsters, or monsters that wont bunch up, a Warrior would be a much more effective killer.

People are stuck with the presumption that Warriors can't do anything but tank, and have been for a long time. Elementalists have been advertised since day one as the main damage dealers, but it quite simply isn't the case in most situations.

Arkantos · Aug 12, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

People are stuck with the presumption that Warriors can't do anything but tank, and have been for a long time. Elementalists have been advertised since day one as the main damage dealers, but it quite simply isn't the case in most situations.

People who think warriors can only tank havent PvP'd much. Shock Warrior can deal a massive amount of damage in less then 5 seconds.

Stank Tank · Aug 12, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Since the AOE nerf my Ele is for storage.